Troy Cheever (AKA TheLeg) notified
Postal Repeated Contact
(3rd from the top)
That they talked with him personally in the postal notice.
Oh, here. Let's rub a little more salt in there.
Charter Member - Association of Low Power Broadcasters
Member Station - ALPB
I posted about this in the initiative site. However yes I did get a visit from them. Yes it was over the limit but here are some more important things that everyone needs to know.
The CZE transmitter that many folks use which you can buy on eBay or Amazon do cause spurious emissions. The reason that there was a complaint was because I was coming in on several different frequencies not just the one frequency I intended to come in on which was 100.1 megahertz. The agent did sit there at my table and explained to me how bad the transmitter was on his Spectrum analyzer. He didn't have to do that but he did and I sat there and listened to what the man had to say.
He says that he has seen a lot of these transmitters and they have the same issue each and every one of them. In the course of time the cheap components inside the transmitter begin to fail when this happens Spurs begin to happen which causes all sorts of issues.
I did ask the agent how far I was coming in as I told him that my range that I was trying to get was from my place to the Deltaville Market. He said he heard me on u.s. 17 this is 21 miles away. Not only that but the signal was quite clear and he understood my term Album Rock quality sound and he heard album Rock quality sound 21 miles away. I about crapped my britches because I didn't think that with the antenna less than 10 ft off the ground and all those trees that's around me I would ever hit that range which is not what I wanted because the town of Glocester is about that far from here. So there is a station just a little ways from Glocester at 18 Watts which you cannot get here and it is a Christian station.
Keep in mind to that was supposed to be a station coming on the air at 100.1 megahertz in Kilmarnock but hasn't came on the air yet so I called them up to find out when they were coming on because I didn't want to interfere with them. The owner said he had an issue with his range and he barely got out a mile when he fired up his transmitter. I asked the dude you have trees around your area? He says yes. I said how high is your antenna? He said 30 feet. He said it was on top of a flagpole. I told him I had 7 Watts and I can do better than that and that his transmitter either had to be failing or his coax was leaking or he really had so many trees that he needs to get his antenna up about 300 ft and then he should have no trouble because WWND which is in White Stone Virginia runs a hundred Watts and he's running 72 which still he should get out almost as good. He may have got upset but I was trying to help not hurt so OK that was a batched move from me to say that but I call it as I see it.
The good that came from this is that the FCC agents Even David heard my Live Show as I got done announcing my set following and I'm here answer two questions I was getting from my listeners such as how come I can hear you in my car radio but when I go home in my house I can't hear you anymore? I told them they need to have a high sensitive radio like a Tecsub, Technics SA-206, Sony Elite Macintosh or a radio with a sensitivity of one microvolt or less and that they could also buy a car stereo and connect it to a CD power supply and put their car antenna outside and they would receive my station at home. The FCC thought I was very informative and really enjoyed that.
I told the agents that my mission was to bring back album Rock to the public and help them Break Free of the shackles of top 40 in rap which is polluting the airwaves since 1984 when Earth Wind & Fire was not played on MTV and that many album rock stations went under for fear of a lawsuit. I told them that album rock is a very precious jonra which needs to be kept alive and held sacred. The agents really enjoyed my show and encourage me to run a certified part 15 am transmitter as the agents had driven the distance from my house to the Deltaville Market and assured me that I should be able to make that with a legal part 15 am setup.
Deltaville Market is one and a quarter miles away and as the agents say that you can get one and a half to two miles on a legal part 15 am setup. I have been working with the agent who is an electronics engineer and I've been asking him which transmitters he thought we're best for album Rock quality sound. I gave him the FCC ID of the rangemaster the procaster and the talking house. He said all three are legal but suggested that the procaster might be the best way to go. Later I was talking about the talking sign the predecessor to the procaster and the agent said it too should have the album Rock quality sound I want and yet if setup right get the range I want.
Now if I had known that it was possible to get album Rock quality sound from a.m. and have the range I wanted in the first place I may never have used FM. I no longer plan on using FM because of two reasons 1 the United States is being plagued by inferior FM transmitters. 2 the legal range for FM in the United States is a joke and will not do what I needed to do. And finally number 3 the FM band is becoming too crowded and does not need any more stations interfering with it. And a final note many broadcasters are vacating a.m. so why not use it.
I did surprise the agents though with the audio processor built-in to nextkast which is one of the best internet radio software and software that uses a good compressor limiter and it does have the transmitter option on nextkast. They looked around for my audio processor and when they seen it coming from my laptop they had to look three or four different times in amazement of the audio quality that I had generated with that software. So now I have agents working with me and because of that album Rock will not be killed. It's a win-win situation I will play by the rules and they will help me.
No I was only trying to help the gentleman get out a little better and suggest why he wasn't getting out. Anyway he was talking about how he was going to give up and let his license expire because he couldn't find anyone interested. I told him I was definitely interested but that I would like to do an album art show.
Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock
More Power for Hobby Broadcasters
There's a catch when you can buy a 7 watt transmitter for $150!...I looked, even less!
Why do you think the Decade MS-100, a part15 and BETS-1 compliant(certified) transmitter costs almost $500 for the entry level mono model. The money you spent replacing those Chinese ones you could have had a Decade that would never do this(interference) and last forever.
And just think of what that Chinese one was getting into the aircraft band. It would be interfering with the planes as they fly over your town. Planes are less than a mile above you!
I don't know how they heard you 20 miles away....the FCC must have very sensitive equipment just for this purpose of finding illegal transmissions.
Consider yourself lucky, you came out of this OK and good to go. I'd take the agent(s) advice as they are also engineers as you pointed out and know about all these transmitters and which ones with the right set up will get you to that market.
MRAM raises a point I want to approach: "Ouch... Oh, here. Let's rub a little more salt in there."
When I found this NOUO I wondered whether to post it here or not.
On the one hand I am against pointing fingers or questioning the legality practiced by each other, but at the same time everyone here is very curious about what is going on in the enforcement world. We wonder how safe we are, even when practicing as close to the rules as possible. Then I remembered that Troy (TheLegacy) was super open at the ALPB meeting last Saturday and freely talked about the whole experience with the agents. His good grace in response to the investigation impressed me and I figured his experience could be eye opening to everyone. Let's set a policy now... this will happen again. Another member of the forum will someday get a NOUO... should we withhold it from mention, or should it be open for review? Troy, was it wrong to link your situation in this thread?
As long as there was no name-calling involved finger pointing and otherwise trying to attack me no I don't see an issue with it. Honestly at first I was afraid to post it here because of the fact that I had a fear that some people didn't really like me very much.
Okay let's get into the nuts and bolts of what really did take place and what I've learned from it. We'll start off with the fact that the transmitter was really causing interference to other folks. This is something I have been very much against causing interference so when I talked with the agents that was really my number one concern who was I interfering with what frequencies was I coming in on. The agent said I was coming in on many different frequencies and I had Spurs on that transmitter.
The next thing we'll talk about is my intended range vs the range that I actually got. Remember my intention was to transmit from my location to the Deltaville Market in One Direction and maybe Taylor's Restaurant which was in the other direction and I would have been more than satisfied. This area covered a lot of folks in businesses such as the Sunset Grill and even Waterside graphics. Many of these folks would drive to the market and wait for their spouse to do what they needed meanwhile they would sit in the car and listen to The Legacy.
What happened that day the agent came was that the temperature shot 30 degrees within a few hours. It didn't dawn on me to check the band that day to make sure that there was no DX stations coming in on frequency 100.1 FM. My station was eard 21 miles away which really did surprise me but then thinking about it I've always been a stickler for telling people who operate FM Within part 15 rules or slightly above it to check there transmitter and check their frequency during these temperature inversions because your signal is going to carry much further then originally intended as we just saw as an example of what happened to my signal.
Another thing we must know and that is though you use scanners and your radio to check for interference the only real way to know if your signal is causing issues is if you have a spectrum analyzer. This was something that the FCC had made quite clear to me more than once. I mentioned to them that I would walk around the complex with my radio and scan frequencies and that when I found bleed over it was only to the apartment next door. However according to agents you cannot tell what is really going on unless you have the equipment to measure this. This is why the agents insist that users operate certified part 15 transmitters because they have been tested in Laboratories under various conditions and their failure rates are observed as well.
And speaking of failure rates as I told the agent that I had to replace the transmitter every 6 months because of the fan in it that would fail or I would start to notice more interference after 6 months as I would go outside with my radio daily for testing. When the transmitter would fail it seemed to do so all at once and it would begin bleeding over several different frequencies and the interference seemed to go quite far. One day I could hear myself around 90.2 megahertz when I was transmitting on 87.7 this went about 300 ft. When that happened I ran inside the house and shut the transmitter off went on Amazon and ordered another one. When I got the transmitter the interference issue was no longer there. The old transmitter was thrown in the garbage and I started a new.
As I believe Mark unmentioned had I saved my money up instead of buying a transmitter at between $46 and $60 each time it would fail I would have had money for a nice certified transmitter and had I used AM I would have gotten the range I wanted legally. I figured if the FCC really had a problem with these transmitters getting out as far as they did they would not continue to allow Amazon and eBay to sell these transmitters and might I add they're much easier to get than a certified AM transmitter that is the erotic thing about it and I can see a mother buying Johnny a transmitter from Amazon to play DJ with and unknowingly setting herself up for the same situation which could have gone horribly sour.
Now I want to talk about range discouragements because this in of itself May force people to want to try and push things a little bit. There has been a lot of talk about AM and legal range. There has been no clear answer as to what range you can expect when finally I've gotten my answer from more than one agent who says under conditions that are not extremely noisy in a rural area such as Deltaville Virginia that I could have gotten the range I wanted because the Deltaville Market is only one and a quarter miles from my transmitter. Taylor's restaurant is about the same. This pretty much covers my entire town with me being in the center and transmitting in a circular pattern or pretty close to it. However another thing was discouraging. Me being an album rocker and a die-hard album rocker I wanted my signal to sound like a 1970s Album Rock station did on the FM band. This is why when I worked with Winston on the program called Nextkast that I was more than adamant that the audio will sound exactly like the album rock stations I grew up with such as WIOT in Toledo or WRIF in Detroit Michigan or WLAV in Grand Rapids. I was not going to stop until my audio met Album Rock quality standards for transmission of such a picky and sacred format that has extremely high requirements.
Being an owner of a talking house am transmitter I did try to experiment with the audio and transmit album Rock while listening on a Grundig radio. The audio quality was a far cry from what was necessary to transmit Album Rock. At the time I had not gotten my hands on a Procaster AM transmitter due to the fact of being disabled and my wife being disabled and I had to get known by my listeners to start getting donations. Now that I do have some support this is something that is obtainable and I'm planning on going the route of a high quality transmitter that will transmit Album Rock at the high quality audio requirement of the Sacred format that must be transmitted at the specifications required in order to not sound sacrilegious. Yes anyone transmitting Album Rock should treat it as a religion and you the operator are the priest. The audience is the congregation the Rock artists are the Gods that are worshipped. You the priest have an obligation not to blasphemy the format by transmitting in poor audio. Which brings up another Factor and that is mono vs stereo. Take the song by Queen which is called the prophet that song is meant to go left right and all around you in stereo you hear the words listen to the man listen to the man listen to The Madman and it goes all around you. Now currently on AM we do not have a certified part 15 AM stereo transmitter and myself being an Album Rocker needs to change this. Remember I am the priest of the Sacred format so somehow I need to get that done.
Together we can all learn and grow from this experience there were things that were upsetting and it was a part of a slight setback for me when it did happen. But my wife Stood Beside Me and said and I'll quote some range is better than no range and encouraged me to go the route of the certified part 15 AM transmitter and not to give up just because I can no longer transmit FM. I have given FM completely up it was something I had to really swallow as a bitter pill going down but I'll take this as a setback and move on because I am strong and I will resist any temptation to ever use FM again.
However I am going to devote my energies into making Album Rock available to an otherwise musically oppressed audience and dying format due to the fact that Many commercial stations are afraid to transmit Album Rock either because of fear of not making enough money from it or because of the technical requirements necessary to make the listeners of this most picky genre satisfied. We can all Unite and work together as I have learned that the FCC is really not enemies against hobby Broadcasting. And because of the fact that they've heard my station and many agents liked it I'm seeing a trend here and they're more than willing to lend a hand while at the same time keeping the airwaves free of harmonics and Spurs and other garbage that would otherwise make the Spectrum unusable. Our chances here now to work side by side with the FCC and not look at them as horrible monsters or folks who cozy up to corporate greed because my experience shows contrary to this belief. Let's work hard together we can all learn and grow from this experience.
Owner/Dj/Album Rock Priest.
Come join the worship services at The Legacy.
I can't comment on your experience, but I'm glad that you're going to continue on with your endeavors, and go the Part 15 AM route.
(and i voiced this concern on the ALPB forum as well) is that legacy being an alpb member and receiving the nouo for such a flagarant FM violation refelects badly on the alpb as a group and does not do our cause for relaxed part 15 am regulations any good.
that is not even attempting to be part 15. that is knowingly violating the law.
nothing personal against thelegacy just concerned about how it makes our organization and the rest of our members look in the eyes of the fcc.
and before someone makes an assumption that i'm advocating legacy be ejected form the alpb i am not thinking that at all.
simply stressing that we all as alpb members hold ourselves to a higher standard and not kowingly and intionally violate fcc regs.
Part 15 Engineer
Hindsight is 2020
I'm not a democrat or a republican, i'm a common sense moderate progressive
please don't forget to register and vote
I don't think it has any ill effects at all and here is why:
I probably shouldn't have done this either but I did. While talking to the FCC I made the comment that most hobby radio operators who spend tens of thousands of dollars on studio equipment audio processing in the leg and then stating the fact that they can only go a hundred and fifty to two hundred feet is definitely not even remotely sane. I made the comment that I am sure that you guys know that that is definitely not the case. The agents did laugh a little bit and joked a little bit about this. So in a sentence I am sure I've done quite good for hobby broadcasting and will continue to do so.
As I have stated in the previous post my belief was how could it be wrong if the FCC allowed these transmitter to be sold on Amazon and eBay. Anybody can buy them you don't have to show any kind of license or anything just enter your Visa or Mastercard and the transmitter is yours within a few days.
Now the air has been clear on how the FCC really feels. In a sense I was not afraid to ask questions not trying to look like a jerk or like I was cocky of any kind but had questions and concerns and I was not afraid to voice my opinions and ask questions of those opinions. There is a big difference when you are sitting at the table with FCC agents between being a know-it-all person with a cocky attitude and acting like you're the Big Man On The Block and asking questions and trying to clear the air because again at the school for the blind back in I would say around 1975 to 1979 we did use FM transmitters and they certainly got out more than a hundred feet. They could clearly be heard off campus. Never mind the fact that I forgot to mention Frankenmuth Michigan which had its Christmas radio station broadcasting 24/7 and I will tell you I got that station on a car radio well over a hundred and fifty feet. Then you have certain websites that I'm not going to attack that mention that they made an FM transmitter or station in the middle of a five-mile radio camp and that the transmitter was going into an antenna not leaky coax not carrier current button antenna and it went 5 miles. So my reasoning is if they could do it obviously there may have been some rule changes in the FCC rules that we did not know about despite the fact of what we see online.
The FCC now has a major job in front of them and that is to clear the air and make things right. I'm not so sure that it's going to be such an easy task because you have these transmitter going around you have radio stations on the FM band that have been transmitting well over that 150 foot rule and let us not mention the kid radio station in Tampa Florida to which there power was ask to be turned down and still the transmission went well over a hundred fifty foot.
Don't get me wrong I do not plan on blatantly going against the FCC wishes and again I have good relationship with the agents that I spoke with. It was a learning experience not anything that would attack you folks as a group of people but I think it does clear the air and shows that hobby broadcasters are expecting some reasonable amount of range and at the same time having responsibilities and trying their best not to interfere with the radio spectrum as I have shown my concerns about that.
Think of it this way the Russians used to be looked at as bad people in the United States was always fearful of the Russians wanting to blow up the world. Well so too there's a lot of misconception and fear about the FCC. I think at this point I am a valued member of this group and I have lots to share and continue to have lots to share.
At the new radio Revolution site we still have in the elite section the am petitions which would abolish the current ground restrictions because as you know putting a transmitter on the ground in certain areas could lead to vandalism in various other harmful things. We do have the FCC on our side realizing that a hobby broadcaster is looking for a reasonable range of say one to two miles or should I say 1 to one and a half miles. Again this has been cleared up as I have spoken to David the one who signed the notice at the enforcement Bureau as well as the electronics engineer who came to my place to discuss this with me.
We are all in this for the same thing rather or not we want to be a little more proactive or rather you sit back and become a pacifist while the other people are the Proactiv folks wishing to make a few changes and help the cause of hobby broadcasting.
It is ridiculous to think that the FCC is going to attack all of you folks for what happened to my station. If anything if we all show that we want to work with the FCC only good could come out of this. Sure you're going to have your snobby webcaster sights or snobby hobby radio broadcasting sites that are always going to find fault with other websites that is the part of being in competition. I say so what don't worry about what they're saying about us we know what we are and what we stand for.
I should not be looked at any differently than anyone else the only difference is that I was transmitting a very sacred format which is very much in danger of extinction due to certain entities that have tried to block it out for years. With hobby broadcasting we have an opportunity to make radio a more diverse place even though there are or maybe organizations that might not feel the same way. From here on out I am working with you folks and always have been even though it never seemed like I was. The new radio Revolution site formerly known as the initiative was only there to help in the possibility of getting rid of some of these unnecessary restrictions such as how long your ground lead is. We know why or we think we know why the ground lead rule is in place but again we have an opportunity now that many broadcasters are giving up a.m. MSA lucrative medium for Mass Cash Cow results. Meanwhile there are AM radio all over this country and will continue to be. Now is our chance to work with the FCC on a reasonable solution to end some of these restrictive rules.
Had people been a little more open about range I am sure that the possibility of me running an AM station might have been a little more favorable. But and maybe this is my only perception I'm seeing a lot of I can do it but you can't. This is been done by other websites and people that are not willing to help and give the full details of how they got a certain range or seem to discourage any usable range for hobby broadcasting on a.m. .
I think there has been a lot of deliberate smoke and mirrors when it came to the subject of hobby broadcasting. We also see that a lot of these transmitter are not easily available and we're talkin supposedly eagle part 15 transmitter to folks like myself who have a vision problem and cannot afford to Shell out over a grand just for the transmitter.
I find it appalling to think that I would have any ill effect against this group and as I've asked many folks and we still have this chance to join us 4 Construction of an a.m. broadcasting petition or proposal as I'd rather call it 4 relaxed rules on the ground lead. I don't really think we're going to need much more power I have seen 100 milliwatts do quite well with what little range is necessary in a rural area such as Deltaville Virginia. We can expect to travel 10 15 or 20 miles to a hobby broadcaster and I think we need to start thinking of what the FCC maybe thinking as it is time for a change because it is not the same situation as it was in the 50s and 60s where AM radio was the only medium.
After all this hard work by myself I think you would be doing yourself a disservice not to join forces with me in a solution that could benefit everybody. Doing this now while I have good relations with certain agents may be the best course of action. As was always said strike while the iron is hot. I've learned this in many career seminars SO2 I feel it is best to do the same thing here.
Once I get the talking sign am transmitter I will let you guys know what the results are. You have my radio station website as I also talked about this on air. It is been no secret no disillusion or anything I have always been out in the open with all of you. Many folks had access to the elite section I only hit it from those who seek to try and destroy ormoc or make fun of our cause. Stay tuned because as I've said before I am strong in my beliefs and will continue to go forward with the am transmitter project that will achieve that one point five to 2 Mile range.
A 15 watt transmitter for $125?? Common sense has to tell you this is crap. Putting the legality aside, someone with a LPFM license would be nuts to use this.
You had to know that after the first and second ones you were getting the same crap.
And yes I said that if you had thought better in the beginning and saved some money first instead of buying these one by one you could have had a Decade or Procaster. Remember what the agent said....THEY LIKED THE DECADES, why?, because it operates with no problems and they have seen them all. May cost a lot more but will last you forever with no interference.
You came out of this pretty good....could have been worse.
I know how you feel about AM but at least you have an option to go from your place to the Deltaville market.
You made a mistake, came out of it OK so put it behind you and move on.
I've used the Talking Sign, the ProCaster and the Rangemaster (as well as other AM transmitters).
I've used external audio processing, including an Inovonics 222, and other devices.
I've had good installations (mainly the grounding), and poor installations (basically installed on top of rock).
I've installed in relatively noisy suburban areas, and in rural areas.
The absolute best range I've obtained, using a Rangemaster with external processing, good grounding (but no radials), was somewhere between 1-2 miles to a very sensitive car radio. That was in a suburban area. The signal itself was weak, with static, but certainly could be listened to. Generally, though, I would say that the reliable range to that car radio was 1 mile or under in most directions. It might have been more if I had installed radials, but that will forever remain unknown (because I didn't).
The range for that same Rangemaster to a portable was in the 1/4 to 1/2 mile vicinity, at least reliably. I was able to barely (and I do mean barely) hear it on a Sony blaster about 3/4 mile away.
The Rangemaster was tuned to exactly 100mw output to the final stage, as per Part 15 and RSS210 requirements, and ground mounted.
The sound quality was good, but not up to FM standards.
The ProCaster that I had did not get as much range as the Rangemaster in the same environment, and did not sound quite as nice. You can't tune the output to the final stage to exactly 100mw as you can with the Rangemaster. In the AM transmitter Challenge conducted by Hobbybroadcaster, the field strength of the ProCaster was indeed slightly less than that of the Rangemaster.
The Talking Sign got about the same range as the ProCaster (which makes sense, as it even shared some parts), but sounded much less 'hifi'. Better than the unmodified Talking House, for sure, but still not great.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is no magic formula to get you that 1.5-2 mile range you want. The FCC ensures that with their antenna/ground restrictions, and the 100mw limitation to the final stage of the transmitter.
A few here have done the theoretical work, and demonstrated that what has been achieved in practice by myself and many others is pretty much the best you can do with AM. There's no point in getting your hopes up by expecting otherwise.
The best route to go, no matter what your RF environment, is to get a Rangemaster or ProCaster and ground it as effectively as you can. You'll get the best sound that is possible with existing certified equipment, and the best range for your environment.
Just don't go expecting miracles.
You may already know this but transmitters used for LPFM must be certified.
Druid Hills Radio AM-1710- Dade City, FL. Unlicensed operation authorized by the Part 15 Department of the FCC and our Resident Hobby Agent.
Thelegacy said: "As I have stated in the previous post my belief was how could it be wrong if the FCC allowed these transmitter to be sold on Amazon and eBay. Anybody can buy them you don't have to show any kind of license or anything just enter your Visa or Mastercard and the transmitter is yours within a few days."
DID YOU MENTION THIS TO THE AGENTS? And they are on Amazon prime....in stock in their facility for next day delivery.
If so what did they say to that?
Enforcement of radio frequency devices coming into the U.S. is a function of Customs not the FCC.
for telling us the whole story.
I think that is pretty cool.
NOISE AND STATIC RADIO
Read this pdf file before you install your AM system and you will have a miracle.
I got this from listening to "Carl's Sunday Morning Church Show"
Miracle Packed Pages
It's a miracle this author was able to string together enough BS to fill so many pages.
But of course the same thing is done over the air every day and gives our dial twirling hand a workout.
Your NOUO makes a handy bookmark.
Getting back to the story yes I did. I told them that the first to transmitter I bought from Amazon. The first one messed up within a few months. It started to hum and the audio went out. I bought the second one from Amazon and it was the 5-watt version which work for about 6 months then it failed as far as the filter went. The Third was from eBay which was the one that the FCC finally has now.
By the way you don't need Amazon Prime to get next day delivery you can pay extra to get it. That's what I did.