I Just Do Not Get It!! Internet Radio Versus FM Radio

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As MrBruce points out, not

As MrBruce points out, not everyone wants to run commercials on their station.  And if I did decide to, I would certainly not want to run obnoxious generic ones that I have no control over.  I would want the commercials to be local in nature, supporting the community.    My experiences on Bowen Island showed me that listeners will tolerate commercials if they're of interest to them, i.e., local.  In fact, some seemed to be more interested in the commercials and PSA's (such as local sales, or announcements of community calendar events) than the regular programming.

I've listened to a lot of the free programming 'out there', and decided not to run them because of the embedded advertising (with some, you have to take the full program untouched, including those generic commercials - I can understand why they would insist on it, as it's free, but no thank you).

Doesn't running ads on your

Doesn't running ads on your stream actually increase the royalty fee? The way the rates are makes a profitable stream nearly impossible.

I don't currently run ads on my part 15, though I have in the past. I do have to admit, commercial free is pretty nice.

Posts number 32 and 33 above

Posts number 32 and 33 above I can agree with 199% out of 100!!!

If I was to do advertising, it would be related to community events or interests.

Like a local concert geared at ending homelessness, or feeding the hungrey who have lost their jobs.

Screw plastering my entertainment schedule with screwy adds related to someone else's down falls, like "Hello are you having issues satisfying your mate? Well for $1,000 you can get "a" pill that will end all your troubles forever"!! Blah!! Not on my station!!!!

Most of those ads are SCAMS to bilk people out of their money, because they prey on the unfortunate members of our population.

My station will remain free of that crap, let them sue me, I dare them!!


For internet Uplay 4 songs

For internet Uplay 4 songs then 2 minutes of commercials. Keep in mind that progressive rock songs can last AZ long as 20 minutes for one song. Most of them last at least 10 minutes long. So it just means a few commercials.


Right now you don't need to play commercials on Park 15 unless use simulcast your internet station.

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

Difference Between Ads and PSAs

Ads (advertising) are paid messages used to sell products or services.

Announcements that benefit charitible events, community stage and music events, and services for assisting veterans, homeless, dogs or disaster relief are not ads... they are Public Service Announcements (PSAs) which stations air for free.

Even if you decide to run paid ads the job of convincing advertisers to place them on your station takes a lot of time, effort, and many turn-downs.

I have an unpublicized deal where religions can run their programs on KDX for $250 an hour. Maybe I'll start promoting that.

Carl Blare

J. R BoB Dobbs has received

J. R BoB Dobbs has received an exemption for C. Blares $250 per hour fee. The Subgenius church is the only religion that admits they are a fraud. For more info go to


Druid Hills Radio AM-1710- Dade City, FL. Unlicensed operation authorized by the Part 15 Department of the FCC and our Resident Hobby Agent.  

If you use Djc Media you your

If you use Djc Media you your self your station staff do not do the legwork looking for advertisers. However Target spot does the work for you. You just program your station and let the money rake in to pay your licensing.  what you have to do is play the trigger files. These are files with special metadata with a series of letters and numbers that when the DJC media server seize the metadata it actually covers the track you're playing in place an ad. If your listener has no ads and that area it will play that file instead which is usually a PSA.

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

When Truth Costs

Druid Hills posted: "J. R BoB Dobbs has received an exemption for C. Blares $250 per hour fee. The Subgenius church is the only religion that admits they are a fraud."

You might assume that the Subgenius Church saved itself $250 because of its honesty, and that is true.

But the honesty of Subgenius Church cost C.Blare's radio station what it would otherwise earn.

The financial success of the KDX religious rates depends on the fraudulant dishonesty of religion.

Carl Blare

What is the actual spot load

What is the actual spot load Legacy? How many ad hours are they looking for per day?

Hard Work

It takes HARD WORK and understanding social media and knowing what to play.


Just don't seem to get the problems with streaming.  Note that I DO NOT STREAM so do not have any first hand information.  However....

You can stream without having to run ANY commercials for a streaming company.  If you sign up with Stream Licensing ( the cost starts at $59.50 monthly.  This involves airing ZERO commercials in exchange for the service.  The ONLY commercials in your programming would be those that you include in your stream, that YOU sold, that YOU collect the money for. 

Now, I know if you're a hobbyist, or refuse to air commercials, that's an out of pocket expense. If I were to decide to stream, I generate just a couple dollars below that in my own ads in a day.  And I do not run an "all commercial station".  I run 8 - 12 minutes of spots an hour. 

Of course, my streaming cost would be more than the $59.50, as that's for a station with, I believe, $20 or less a month in revenue. The license cost varies with  revenue generated and number of listener hours. $59.50 is the lowest bracket they have. 

I don't stream because I haven't really found the need to, and I promised my boss at the commercial stations where I'm on the air every day that I wouldn't stream until I retired so I wasn't competing with myself.

But you do NOT have to have ANY effect on your programming to stream -- that is -- if you don't mind paying for the service.


Unknown Facts About StreamLicensing and ASCAP

More facts about StreamLicensing:  As I’ve attended many of their phone conferences created by Wes and Mr. Hernandaz mentioned the fact that StreamLicensing  would start using pre roll video/audio ads the first time one tunes into your station.  This was going to be done to offset the high cost of royalty licensing.


That $59/mo only coverers a mere 5-10 simultaneous listeners 24/7 whereas you don’t go below 5-10 listeners all day long.  Heck you may as well stay part 15 at that few of listeners.


My sponsor pays a hefty $80/Mo and I get 12-20 listeners all day 24/7 sometimes more but this is the average amount of listeners I get.


So one way or another you’re going to have ads rather its banner ads, pre roll audio/video, or a forced ad when your station is first tuned in.


Assuming your 100% legal by the book and you’re not using a VPN and an offshore server somewhere in the UK or Malaysia to avoid the copyright police you need ads to stay afloat and legally play music.  And again as I’ve said doing it under the radar means the possibility you’ll not stay on the popular Internet Radio directories.


Those nasty letters from the copyright cops are something you better take heed to or have a sponsor to defend you if anything happens as even StreamLicensing was wrongfully accused of illegal actions by ASCAP just ask the StreamLicensing team and some of its stations.  If you try and roll your own without paying licensing  fees you best have a lawyer on retainer (you’ll need one) and you think the FCC is bad going after Johnny 2 mile?  That is a walk in the park compared to what will happen to you if an entity like ASCAP or SoundEXchange gets ahold of you.   ASCAP has not lost a case yet until StreamLicensing.  Sound Exchange put many legit companies out of business because they didn’t do everything by the book.


Hope this advice helps.


Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

Reply to Mrbruce

This is an old thread but I'd like to update my response....AGREE FULLY with what Mrbruce is saying. There's expenses to streaming....the program to do it, paying for music licenses, etc.

You think that you are getting to the world but doesn't matter if no one is listening. I have listened to some forum members streaming like Thelegacy Artisan, and Part15Engineer for example and every time I go there it says 0 listeners or 1 that is me. Listeners in last 24 hours 0! Even Carl I think has mentioned this.

By the way Part15Engineer, lately I can't get your stream....have you changed the stream format or something?

Back to my point, I believe that most people aren't using their computer as a radio. There are also 1000s, maybe tens of 1000s of stations streaming on the internet, commercial stations and everything else and there's hundreds or even thousands of internet stations just like yours, no matter what the format, so what are the chances you will get listened to.

Yes you can advertise on Facebook in a group that may be interested but like was mentioned it didn't work as there's 500+ other stations doing the same thing.

I am just over the air and no other station on the radio sounds like me where I am in Toronto. I have no competition and other than the cost of the transmitter, compressor etc.,no ongoing expense and I have more of a chance of getting the odd listener.

I am a member of a group on Facebook 50s 60s and 70s music and memories and I have posted that if any here are from Toronto, which some are, to check my station out if in my area and I have just as much chance of getting a listener or two as streaming at an ongoing expense.




Following Up on Mark

Mark is correct and very much on point with his commentary on the problem of standing out among tons of similar stations.

Earlier, either in this or some other thread, TheLegacy talked about the various tiers of service one can buy from stream providers, such as the 10-listener level or the 20-listener level...

But I ask... how can you possibly know that connections to your stream equal listeners?

I can make connections to my stream by connecting audio players which get counted and if I use five computers on five IP addresses I can give myself 5 listeners, but they are not real listeners.

My suspicion is that stream services do exactly what I am talking about... they generate fake listeners to make the customer feel he is getting what he paid for.

We might be living in a dream world.

Carl Blare

Well, one way to avoid the

Well, one way to avoid the potential problem Carl points out is for a station to run its own server (and get its own music license, or, in my case, play only public domain material).  However, just because something out there on the Internet connects to your server doesn't mean they're a listener.  There are all sorts of bots and hackers out there looking for open ports and/or vulnerabilities.

I once looked at my total listener count and it was over 20,000 (for one day!).  It turned out that the IP address was that of a known spammer - they look for open ports and ways to get into your computer so that they can turn it into a spam machine.  I blocked the IP, but the same spammer came back on another IP.  I ended up blocking an entire range of IP's (because the spammer was well known, the IP addresses were well known too).

To determine a 'real' listener, you need to go into your logs and see who stays there for a period of time.  Most of these other connection attempts are momentary.

In the case of Live365...

The control panel allows the streamer (me) to see real-time the IP addresses of who's connected by geographical location. So yes Carl at least in the case of Live365 you are in slumberland. 

Druid Hills Radio AM-1710- Dade City, FL. Unlicensed operation authorized by the Part 15 Department of the FCC and our Resident Hobby Agent.  

ANY Number of Streamers...

I exchanged email with Stream Licensing today and was assured that the $59/mo plan covers how ever many streamers as necessary.  If 100 people want to listen, then can.  If a thousand people want to stream, they can. All at once. But if 1000 people are all listening at once and they all listen for an hour, that burns up your 4000 limit on total listener hours available for that month.  His example to me was that 5-10 people could listen simultaneously if they were to stream 24/7.  That would use up the 4000 alloted total listener hours within the month. 

Which is what i thought. The number of people streaming is not controled or limited, it's the number of total streaming hours that is limited, to whatever size package you buy.  So if you start with the smaller 4000 hour package and discover that's not enough to cover your number of streamers you'll need to upgrade.

So it really depends on how many people listen for how long.  For $78/mo Stream LIcensing gives you 7000 TLH.  It goes up to $263 for 25,000 TLH.  If you're generating that kind of listernership you should easily be able to cover the cost with advertising income. 

Don't know about you, but I don't know anyone who streams anything 24 hours a day 7 days a week. ESpecially if they're paying for data. 

As for all the bots and such that connect, they only connect for a second so don't really have much effect on  TLH (total listening hours).

When I listen to WREN, the streaming only oldies station out of Topeka os Shoutcast I get one 30 second ad when I connect and that's it. The rest is them.  Of course they have over 25,000 listeners per day. 


My reference to bots and

My reference to bots and spammers was directed towards those that run their own streaming server.  You might think you're getting hundreds of listeners per day, but in reality most of those are 'other'.

I can tell you why that....

I can tell you why that....

Hold, on...commercial...

Anyway, the reason why I listen to inter....

Sec, another commercial....

Ok, I listen to internet radio for one sim....

Damn, another commercial....


^^ It didn't used to be this bad. Now it is. Bye, radio.


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