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I Just Do Not Get It!! Internet Radio Versus FM Radio

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I Just Do Not Get It!! Internet Radio Versus FM Radio

People are always stating that Internet Radio is killing terrestrial radio broadcasting.

I just do NOT agree with that.

When my radio station was carried on the FM broadcast band, we had over 50 interested people listening to it and Interacting with us on our Facebook page.

Because of issues, the terrestrial broadcast side of my radio station is now gone.

I have gone over to being an Internet only radio station.

I am listed on several sites, including Tune In dot com.

I keep posting on facebook as much as I can, about the station and the links to listen in.

No matter what I have done, my Internet station always has ONE listener....ME!!!!

Included is a screen shot showing my server's status.

When I was on the FM band, people listened, now, as an Internet Radio station with the same programing schedule, I can not get anyone to listen for the life of me.

This is why I have to ask, why do so many people claim that Internet Radio is killing terrestrial radio??

When WXTZ 87.9 Norwich was in operation we had a crew, now I'm a loner trying to revive what I once had. Advertising my stream is difficult, without crossing that spam rule at most sites.

WFPN is a non-profit, self supporting station, I pay the music licensing fees, without financial help from others.

But try and try again, I can not get anyone to listen on line!! My daily server statistics indicate I am the only listener my Internet station has day after day.

I do not do live broadcasting, like I did when WXTZ was on air, because I see no point in talking to myself, when no one else is even trying to tune in to see what WFPN has to offer.

Are you all facing the same issues with your Internet feeds?

WFPN SERVER

Bruce.

AttachmentSize
Image icon WFPN Server18.22 KB
Just wanted to add, my stream

Just wanted to add, my stream is on a premium account, so even that is costing me money to keep going, not to mention the purchasing of all of the music I own.

Bruce.

It's In the Numbers

There are probably more than 100,000 radio stations that anyone can get on the internet.

In your neighborhood there may be only under ten music stations competing on AM or FM, si the odds of attracting listeners are much higher.

If internet radio is killing terrestial radio it's because there's more choice on the internet.

For example, MrBruce, how many internet stations have music just like yours?

Carl Blare

Carl Blare Said:

Carl Blare Said:

For example, MrBruce, how many internet stations have music just like yours?

MrBruce contests:

Not many, at least not carrying as many genres as my feed carries.

My genre list is as follows:

Rock

Album Orientated Rock

Disco

1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's, New Millennium

Soul, reggae, main stream, new wave, hip hop, heavy metal, country, southern rock, top 40, oldies, techno, trance, contemporary, sound tracks, comic releases. LOL the list goes on and on.

There really isn't anything I won't play, except for rap, specially profanity ladened rap, I might own a few tracks that are close to rap, but, those tracks are few and in-between and fall under hip-hop not rap.

Bruce.

It's Worth Doing

It is good that you have determined a way to make your music mix unique and that should build an audience.

Looking for ways of promoting the station is a problem given the impediments you mentioned.

If nothing more, it is the station of your choice and gives you the best listening.

Carl Blare

The Legacy has been an

The Legacy has been an internet radio station since 2007 before we added part 15. I can tell you this it doesn't happen overnight that you get listeners. There has been many times I might get to 2 to 3 listeners at the start. I would do live shows anyway even though I only had two or three listeners. I would promote the station on Facebook and many internet sites such as TuneIn and much more. Even YouTube. I would comment under the artists and track that I play and then I would go to YouTube and see if there is that very same track. If there was I would make a comment that I play it on my station and give out the URL. I did this for several months and it was on going. After doing it every day for several months and almost every track that I play I finally got tons of listeners. You see many people don't realize that internet radio exist so you have to promote it. Also the server quality that you have makes a difference and your internet connection makes a difference. I'll explain at first I had problems with my station buffering. I would lose listeners due to this. When you're on the air it is important that no one else uses your internet connection you cannot play video games and broadcast at the same time if you do it will cause your station to cut in and out. This will cause you to lose listeners. So while you're on the air make sure no one and I mean no one plays video games on your internet connection if they do you will pay a high price and that is listeners. If you're going to do that you need to have an auto DJ as a backup so that while you have a family member playing games you can switch it to the auto DJ and then you will not cut in and out and then you will have plenty of listeners. This was something I had to learn on my own as an internet broadcaster and believe me I went through plenty of growing pains and it did not happen overnight that My station
became a success there were many many months of huge internet issues and this cause me to lose listeners. So if you're not getting listeners you need to make sure your connection is as solid as a rock.

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

http://thelegacy.shorturl.com

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

http://the-initiative.boards.net/

Do special broadcast events.

Do special broadcast events.

Pick an artist that you really like, and that doesn't get much airplay (example - The Beach Boys).  Develop a playlist with Beach Boys & related songs (including commentary), and hold a Beach Boys weekend.  Promote this on the Beach Boys facebook page (if one exists - remember, this is an example), and various Forums, well in advance of the weekend.

You'll get tons of listeners for that one event, and some will likely stay on.  I did something similar for Cliff Richard, and it was a big success - I did it for 2 weekends, and my # listeners went up from single digits to over 125 (which saturated by upload bandwidth of 5Mbps (at 40kbps mono for each listener).

If you rely on word of mouth or people finding you in the Internet radio directories, you'll be waiting a long time.  There are just too many options - some may stumble across you, but that's it.  Even if you are unique.  There's lots of unique out there.

Since Jimmy VanZant died

Since Jimmy VanZant died Today you may want to do a Lynyrd Skynyrd Weekend.  Nothing but Lynyrd Skynyrd songs.   Or if you do other songs you can play tons of Southern Rock that sounds a lot like Lynyrd Skynyrd.  Make sure to tell everyone in forums and such and see what you get.

 

Mixing Album Rock and Hip Hop however won't work.  Die hard Album Rockers consider that sack religious.  See Album Rock (Dir Hards) look at that almost like worshiping the Gods of Rock.  Anything pop is the same as the Devil himself.  It would be like having played christian music and preatching the word of God and then playing Iron Maiden - The Numger Of The Beast.  Or W.A.S.P - F Like A Beast.

 

Certain formats don't and Wont mix.  Now you can play Pop and country, Southern Rock and Country or something like Pop and Oldies.  But remember Album Rock (True Album Rock that is) is the most pickey format on the planet.  I know I have friends who are die hards.  It a sort of cult like group of Audiophiles.

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

http://thelegacy.shorturl.com

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

http://the-initiative.boards.net/

My opinion....

Agree with MrBruce....Most people aren't using their computers as radios, even though there are thousands of stations in hundreds of genres and you can hear in the oldies format for example songs that terrestrial radio would never play...try hearing do-wop or blues on regular radio. But still everyone isn't using a computer as a radio. Look at satelite radio, the same thing, many more genres and formats not found on regular radio but everyone isn't running to that either and it's a lot cheaper than the internet. As for the oldies format the age group of listeners for this genre are older people who, the majority of them(myself not included lol!) don't know about computers or navigating through the internet to find the stations. The people who don't like what is played on regular radio just don't listen....they don't sit at the computer listening to internet stations.

I myself have listened sometimes and I like Artisan's streaming but only listen for a bit occasionally....If I was in his area where I could get his over the air station I'd have it on all the time.

Myself being into this hobby with a BETS-1 station I listen to myself and my station plays everything I want so I don't really need to listen to internet stations.

If regular radio is loosing audience it's not to the internet or satelite radio...they just listen to their own records or CD's or what's downloaded on an MP3 player.

 

Mark

 

Random thoughts

Just heading out to work and a couple quick comments:

WREN an internet only oldies station in Topeka has surpassed the 200,000 unique listeners level.  They have 20,000 listeneers + daily.  SO, yeah, it can be done.

Shoutcast alone has over 250,000 stations available on their app.  Add in the others and see where it stands. 

Virtually every terrestrial station is now streaming as well, add that to the count.

The stations I work at -- my morning show gets about 2,000 streamers every morning -- this is a terrestrial oldies station - heavy on the blabber in the morning. I play Doo-Wop, Blues and the Beach Boys ;)  When we have local high school sports on the stream numbers generally double. 

Posting on Facebook only helps if you have a decent number of followers. 

Internet radio is not killing terrestrial radio. Some would like you to believe that but the numbers do not support that. 

But at a Part 15 it does increase the audience potential from a few hundred to the world. 

I know my Part 15 has over the air listeners. I also know that I have regular listeners who listen on the cable TV channel that carries my audio.  And weekly I have people who ask when I'm going to start streaming (not until I retire from my real radio job). 

Just random thoughts.  Now, off to work.

TIB

 

 

Internet Radio takes awhile

Internet Radio takes awhile to gather steam, I think it took mine several months to attract a sizeable number. Eventually I had to upgrade the server 2 or 3 times to keep up.

Legacy is spot on about audio quality being fairly important, however what goes on with your local connection doesn't do much to your internet stream. Unless you have a terribly slow connection the bandwidth consumed by encoding to shoucast is negligable, my net can slow to a crawl and my stream won't hiccup at all heading to the server.

This of course assuming you don't host your own server on site.

On a side note, Legacy's method of promotion can attract some very negative attention on the internet. This method is commonly called "Spam". I do not recommend this method of promotion, I suspect your spike in listeners was coincidental and likely came from other sources.

Audio Quality

Going a bit deeper into audio quality, believe it or not only the older listners are concerned with the actual bitrate quality of the stream. If your station targets younger listeners the bitrate really doesn't matter as much.

Choices

On Easter Saturday we hosted our extended family for dinner and I was a non participating observer of a conversation among three adult males. They were comparing streaming music services and the common theme I observed which attract them to this is that they can choose their own favorite genre and playlists. Their excitement was due to this feature. They also mentioned that they use these services because they are commercial free and they don't have to listen to inept chatter from DJs.

It would seem, from this unscientific micro sample of an audience, that the attraction is the ability to choose the content rather than to accept what someone else thinks they wish to hear.

Could it be that it is not the delivery method but rather streaming radio stations are doing essentially the same as is being done by broadcasters in terms of content and format and trying to guess what will attract listeners?

Years ago I came across an oldies jukebox website where I could select the cuts from a library and enjoyed this because i could select what to hear, hence the "jukebox" name. The site owner announced that due to licensing he no longer could allow listeners to choose from his playlist and his site became no different that a station playing satellite streaming. My ability to choose was gone and so was I.

Compare Netflix to traditional cable TV. The difference is not in the quality of the movies and programs but rather in the ability of the viewer to watch on demand.

Neil

With all the choices out

With all the choices out there, I believe that the only way to get any substantial listenership, even with streaming, is to target the local audience.  Essentially, community broadcasting over the Internet.  And you don't have the Part 15 rules to worry about - just copyright.

And while it won't help you, MrBruce, there are a lot of countries (most, actually) that have less draconian copyright rules than the U.S.  It is possible to bypass the copyright licensing bodies completely by playing all public domain music and sound recordings - which is what I'm doing in Canada.

It is even possible in the U.S., using independents (with permission, of course), and freely available stuff.  Most OTR is in the public domain as well.

i once had the crazy idea of

i once had the crazy idea of a town/city-wide mesh net using a mixture of 900, 2.4, and 5.8 and feeding it internet via a comcast business connection running through opendns. essentially it would be a giant wide area lan connected through a firewall / content filter to the internet and my streaming station would be run over the wide area lan side which would be linked on the wifi splash page users get before connecting to the internet.

Part 15 Engineer

Hindsight is 2020

I'm not a democrat or a republican, i'm a common sense moderate progressive

 

please don't forget to register and vote

Replying back to everyone.

Replying back to everyone.

I agree, that the last thing I want to do is SPAM my station, it is a good way to get banned from places I enjoy hanging out at for knowledge.

I recently found a page by Googling Delicast in a manner to find their station submission page, because it is kind of elusive, unless you Google it with the correct word sequence, but this page showed up last night, so I figured I'd share it with everyone.

https://radio.co/blog/internet-radio-directories-submit-promote/

It lists several links where one can submit their on-line stream to be added to various directories.

I think most of you do realize WXTZ 87.9 Norwich operated as a legal part 15 radio network, so even with the limited signal foot print, we generated a well known 50 people without even trying. That was before and does not count any trouble makers who were playing a part in my on-air station's demise.

As you can figure, someone was upset they lost those possible 50 listeners, although, there was only ONE terrestrial radio station that anyone could say was their second choice if they had to make one. I really do not know, what radio station complained and probably never will, thanks to people keeping it a big secret.

One of the things I did with with WXTZ was renamed the station's name and did so on Facebook from WXTZ to WXTZ 87.9 Norwich. This gave the station's frequency and city name and gave it a localized feeling.

I renamed WFPN to WFPN Radio Norwich CT on the Facebook account, to which I was added as an Administrator of the page.

Notice there is no frequency in the name, since the station is no longer a terrestrial type service. I really am not sure it ever will be again, since it was difficult to get the original 8 transmitter participants for WXTZ, I do not think I can get another group of people to agree to do the same. 87.9MHz was really, the only channel in my area that was usable and not causing co-channel with a licensed station.

Some may say it was a poor choice for using 87.9MHZ (channel 200), but on that channel we were not blocking out a licensed station preventing someone from listening to it. Although, it is not clear, why I was told by one of the complainers, that an engineer was hired to track down the "interfering" radio station, which was I guess was WXTZ???????

Well, anyways, even if I went with AM, the equipment for AM would have to be chosen, a frequency chosen and a new group of people who would be willing to house such a device at their address and hope we never go through that "hunting down a pirate" crap again.

As for the station name, I have not yet, renamed the station, its still listed as either WFPN or WFPN AOR. I have to rename those.

TuneIn is where my station is called WFPN AOR (AOR meaning Album Oriented Rock), it is also not listed in my local area directory. For two reasons.

One is Interent Stations can't be listed in local directories, where licensed terrestrial radio stations can be, but then you have to prove you have such license from the FCC. But, a Internet Radio station can be listed in a local directory if 80% of the feed is local news, local sports or local town Goverment talk radio, then TuneIn will relist the Internet radio station in a local directory, listed by city and state. I'll have to up the local programing quite a bit, local as in talk radio related to Norwich affairs.

I need to find other ways to get local recognition, people have created Facebook pages related to Norwich, I do try in off beat ways to promote my station such as my Facebook avatar having WFPN NORWICH CONNECTICUT in it.

There are pages related to Norwich's past historic history, since I am in New England, Norwich is home and birth place of Benedict Arnold.

I am not trying spam my station here, but I would like some of you to listen from time to time and tell me what you think, I can take constructive criticism, so don't be affraid to give me some.

If it is permitted, here are severel links, please post here, any responses you might have, because that is important to me.

WINAMPhttp://s25.myradiostream.com:9672/listen.pls

WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYERhttp://myradiostream.com/25/9672.asx

VLC/OTHER PLAYERShttp://s25.myradiostream.com:9672/listen.m3u

MOBILE DEVICE/CELL PHONE LINKhttp://myradiostream.com/mobile/WFPN

TUNEIN LINKhttp://tunein.com/radio/WFPN-AOR-s266081

FACEBOOKhttps://www.facebook.com/WFPN-Radio-Norwich-CT-424225207770120

Thanks for your time!!!

Bruce.

 

Let's Make a Deal

MrBruce you are a member of the ALPB and there is a STREAMERS page at thealpb(dot)com where you can be assigned to your own Flash Player simply by supplying Chairman Bob with your stream address.

During the time my station was linked there I got a lot of people trying me out judging from my tracking software,

In fact, MRAM BOB, if you read this, put MrBruce on my out-of-service Flash Player, which I am not using.

For now my radio stream is only selectable on my own website, I am not listing on any directories or other sites.

THE ALPB STREAMERS PAGE

Carl Blare

My Stream URL ishttp://s25

My Stream URL is

http://s25.myradiostream.com:9672/

I am surprised I got accepted on http://www.streamingthe.net I only made a station submission last night. Link below is for my station.

http://www.streamingthe.net/search/?s=wfpn

http://www.streamingthe.net/WFPN-Radio/p/45581/live

Working on the other sites mentioned in my post above about https://radio.co/blog/internet-radio-directories-submit-promote/

See, perhaps I am also giving some advice while getting it.

One hand washes the other.

Bruce.

Listened....

Sounds good to me , have no criticism, seems your format is more pop rock rather than album rock based on what I heard in the time I listened but that's ok. And I heard "JESSIE" by... was it Carly Simon?..a few times in ten minutes.

 

Mark

Mark Said:

Mark Said:

And I heard "JESSIE" by... was it Carly Simon?..a few times in ten minutes.

MrBruce Said:

I looked at the log, you're right, Jesse played at 18:24 and again at 18:32.

I usually have Zara Radio set to delete from list after play, that usually prevents a double play from happening, but it does happen occasionally even with 2,972 songs on the play list.

Bruce.

There was a few directories

There was a few directories listed I have not submitted my station in. I'll have to work on that very soon. Maybe this Weekend some time. Thanks for the list I bookmarked it.

 

Now on the subject of Bit Rate and sample Rate as well as AAC+:

Don't kid yourselves bit rate is the MOST IMPORTANT thing for your Internet Radio station. Mine runs on a remote server and I had to stream to that remote server. I'll tell you this too that some home Internet providers advertise High Speed or a rate your supposed to get but on't tell you some things like the fact that it sometimes can be a bottle neck type speed. Meaning that it is not constant. Time Warner of Elizabeth City, NC was notorious for this trick and so badly that I had to use Cellular Internet to stream to the server because I used 128K Mp3 and I had a 64K AAC+ stream for smartphone users that sounds as good as 128K Mp3. The sample rate was 44.1Khz.

 

If your in a pinch you can sometimes get away with 64K Mp3 Stereo @ 22.1 Khz sample rate (Not 44.1 at the low bit rate for Mp3) other wise it sounds like your head is under water and your trying to listen to a pool side Radio.

 

Dedicated Shoutcast or Icecast server VS Value Server

A value server (VPS) has many users on the same server but using a different port. When several stations have a ton of listeners your station will buffer in and out at 128K and cause you to lose listeners. This sometimes happens on the FREE verskon of listen2myradio as again several users are using the same bandwidth.

 

Premium or dedicated Shoutcast or Icecast V2 servers are separate for each user or have only a few members on the same server as well as a very high bandwidth capacity. This translates into NO BUFFERING so long as the source going to the server has a great connection.

 

No spam

You have to be careful about going onto forums and posting your station. You can post as a signature, but be careful about making a thread that posts your station as some call it spam.

 

The youtube comment thing I did was a gray area as it was only a comment under the video (in many cases a pirated riped audio copy) of the songs I have on my playlist. People who go to youtube often don't know about Internet Radio and therefore it did get me some listeners. But Radio Directories are a great way to get your station known.

 

Set up a Google Voice Request Line

Set up a Google Voice number for your station and forward it to your cell phone. Always remind listeners too that they can Download a FREE app called TextMe to text their request to you. This helps you because if your like me you always carry your smartphone on you. Believe me I monitor my station all the time and at the first hick up I'm on top of it. It is a mandatory thing that you have plenty of data on your plan too so that when you go shopping you have that ability to occasionally tune in to your station to be certain it is not messing up. Verizon and AT&T are the BEST carriers for Internet Radio owners. Cricket also uses AT&T (Stay away from Sprint unless you absolutely have a limited budget). You should have a Samsung Galaxy Grand Prime or BETTER. A Galaxy S4, S5, S6, S7 is Highly recommended followed by LG G5, G4. Make sure your smartphone can stream AAC+ (Samsung Galaxy phones do). Other phones to try if your on a budget would be a used refurbished Galaxy S3 as they can do quite good and they are cheap due to the fact they are older but they do well for Internet Radio.

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

http://thelegacy.shorturl.com

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

http://the-initiative.boards.net/

AAC

AAC is a fantastic encoder format, a 32kbps AAC+ sounds nearly identical to a 128kbps mp3. 64kbps has to sound pretty darned good.

iPhones also natively support AAC playback.

I'm not sure I agree that

I'm not sure I agree that bitrate is the most important thing about an Internet station.  As is the case for most things, it all depends.

If you're doing a mono stream (which makes sense if most of the material you play is natively mono), then quite frankly 128KBps is a waste of bandwidth, even using mp3.  64KBps is more than sufficient - don't forget that most people listening to Internet Radio don't have audiophile systems - they're doing it on computers or smartphones for the most part.

I did some extensive testing for mp3 bitrates, as I run my own server(s), and the bitrate/bandwidth is important - it determines how many listeners you can support at one time.  I found by the ear test that 40KBps sounds just fine (mono).  There is a noticeable dropoff in quality at 32KBps, and while higher bitrates do sound better, the increase in quality from 32 to 40 is the most noticeable.  I currently run at 48KBps, as I've found that some players, particularly on smartphones, don't like bitrates not divisible by 16.

And while AAC and other formats may give you good sound at lower bitrates, MP3 is still by far the most popular, and most widely supported.  I believe firmly in making listening as easy as possible for everyone - otherwise, they'll just go away.

Exploring the Fringes

During trials when I was comparing various bit-rates for streaming mp3's I got to wondering about the source material. I asked myself, what kind of upper-frequency energy is actually present on the music and programs?

There are various ways of analyzing frequency response, one I have tried is using the equalizer in Audacity to strongly reduce all frequencies below, let's say, 10,000 Herz, so that 10kHz is heard above all else...

On many programs there is nothing in those upper reaches.

And it makes sense upon realizing that the human voice, let's say, has no energy content way up there, even sibilance is lower than 10kHz.

Musically there are no actual instruments up that high, alhough the "harmonics" and "overtones" of some instruments contribute to a sense of realism, but that's only true with acoustic music using professional musical instruments and is not at all true of synthesized music generated by computers or electric guitars.

Like Artisan I ended up finding 48 kb/s is an acceptable rate for radio transmission... it saves on server bandwidth.

Another thing many people today overlook is that there are many potential listeners in the world with slow computer systems or low-speed internet service, and the only way to serve them is to provide lower bandwidth radio signals.

Carl Blare

That pretty much lines up

That pretty much lines up with my findings, I tend to run my streams in Mono since my source is mono. I recall reading this effictively doubles your bitrate quality, ie 128 becomes 256 essentially or 48 becomes 96.

Doubling down on quality, todays listener does not necesessarily concern themselves with the bitrate. Mostly due to the fact many modern streams are listened to via subpar sources such as smartphone speakers. (Which are mono)

My practice typically has been to have one 128 kbps mp3 stream (96k was another I used quite often) for desktop users and one 32kbps AAC+ stream for mobile users.

Its interesting how you

Its interesting how you mention this because the 1st company I use to belong to was Loudcaster.  They done just that.  32K AAC+ for mobile and 128K for the regular listeners in the house.  Plus keep in mind too that there is the Logitech Squeezebox (An Internet Radio that looks and feels like a boombox).  This Radio sounds great too and can receive The Legacy.

 

64K Mp3 can work well in a pinch at 22.1 Khz sample rate.

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

http://thelegacy.shorturl.com

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

http://the-initiative.boards.net/

New Warning From The Horses Mouth of StreamLicensing!!

TuneIn R!!adio is being Sued by Sony Music Corp for stations not licensed and listed in their directory!!

 

Sony Music Corp and Sound Exchange are pushing hard to get the non licensed stations off the directories across the Internet and with a vengence. Law suits will continue until these websites comply and De-List stations that cannot prove they have a Royalty License. If your listed in the StreamLicensing directory your all set.

 

Raionomy Under The Radar

 

In talks with my sponsor it appears many users of Radionomy may find themselves without a legal licensing out as it appears that they owe Sound Exchange (Remember the SWCast scam?) It appears that StreamLicensing has been one of the trustworthy companies who has paid the fee's and kept their members operating legally.

 

Moral is and normally I on't preach about Licensing!!

 

If your Internet Radio station is not legally licensed you need to change your mode of operation Right Away. You Won't be listed in the TuneIn directory and I bet iTunes will be next to follow suit. If your not listed in the StreamLicensing directory your station will not be listed on TuneIn in the near future and plenty of others will most likely follow suit. Sony Music Corp is on a rampage as well as Sound Exchange to end all Pirate Internet Radio stations.

 

The Legacy has been a legal Internet Radio station since start up when running on Loudcaster, then StreamLicensing. We have good connections with Stardom Digital Media and know some things the general public is not aware of.

 

The Legal Fight Is On to Lower the rates for Small Webcasters (SWA).

 

Internet Radio has 3 major strikes against it so far. We need to be sure all of the StreamLicensing members are 100% compliant with the BMI rules. Please check them out on StreamLicensing's web site. This will help when it comes time to lay the talks on the table with the PRO's. Sorry to bring the bad news but this is serious, however there is good news on the horizon but it will take effort on all the Internet Radio operators who take their hobby seriously.

 

Get Legal

 

StreamLicensing will be taking new applicants soon keep checking this link:

 

http://www.streamlicensing.com/xstream/aff.php?aff=012

 

You may have to play ads to help pay for your Radio station!!

 

Just as The Legacy does you will have to play ads to keep your station in operation. Djc Media group is the way to go as they don't rip you off and with StreamLicensing your license is actually being paid for so your 100% legal.

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

http://thelegacy.shorturl.com

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

http://the-initiative.boards.net/

This is all very interesting.

This is all very interesting.

TuneIn and other directories don't initiate streams - they just host links to them.  Many of those links are international in origin, and so don't fall under the U.S. copyright laws.  I can understand why they would want to go after the relatively small number of directories as opposed to tens of thousands of individual sites (which may or may not be breaking copyright laws) but it's really legal blackmail.  Many streams which ARE legal in their respective countries are going to be affected.  I can see many of these directories either becoming U.S. only, or moving offshore.

Just a comment on the Canadian connection to Stream Licensing.  They deal with SOCAN only.  SOCAN is the licensing body in Canada which represents the songwriters or creators.  They don't deal with the licensing of the actual musical performance - RE Sound does (unless everything you play was released prior to 1965, in which case the musical performance is in the public domain).  So you still have to deal with Re Sound if you're in Canada and you're playing relatively modern music, even if you deal with Stream Licensing.  And if you keep archives on your web page that you allow people to download, you may also have to deal with the CMRRA, which licenses musical reproduction.  Stream Licesning doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Canadian webcasters.

All this hassle surrounding copyright makes me glad that Artisan Radio went the way it did.  We run our own servers located in Canada.  Each and every song is meticulously researched to ensure that it is in the public domain in Canada (all musical performances released in 1964 or earlier, and all the songs written by artists who have been dead for at least 50 years prior to 2016).  Unfortunately, no new music will be coming into the public domain for another 20 years, as the copyright for musical performances was extended by the Canadian Government from 50 years to 70 years in 2015, and the copyright for songs was extended in 2016 (by the ratification of the TPP) from Life+50 years to Life+70 years) - the status of musical performances and songs that had already fallen into the public domain remained unchanged.

There's been a lot of discussion surrounding the possibility of the FCC discouraging or even eliminating Part 15 or hobby broadcasting.  I actually think that it will be copyright issues that that eventually sinks the hobby, and not the FCC.  Pretty soon (in my opinion), ASCAP and SESAC in the U.S., and SOCAN/Re Sound in Canada, will go after Part 15 over-the-air broadcasters, and not just streamers, to pay licensing fees.  And that will be the end of that.

First off, my stream is in

First off, my stream is in stereo, because a large number of songs are recorded in stereo.

My sample rate is 48,000Hz

My stream Codec is MP3 with a bitrate of 192K.

My automated programing consists of all mp3 formated files, the music files are mp3s, but they do have a varying degree of bitrates, I think the lowest is 64, the highest is 320kbps.

Some of the music I have, came from open source web sites, usually the mp3 format is availabe in varying degrees of bitrate, so I take what I can get.

My personal recordings are mp3s at 320kbps at constant bitrate from either vinyl records or cassette tapes. Rarely are they from CDs! I hate CDs!!!!

As for the music licensing fiasco, I can not believe that at this time and place in history, that things are headed the way they are.

I do not think for one moment, that someone should not get paid for their art work, even if it is in the form of music. Just like I'd expect to get paid for my work.

But, there appears to be a lot of greed in this industry.

I do not see a new birth here, I see an untimely death in the making of a once popular type of entertainment, music.

The future, holds an unknown ending to what once was one of America's favorite pass times.

When the cost to listen to music becomes what is beyond what most people feel is a fair cost, people will either steal it or find another form of entertainment.

Reading the posts here, it appears that music will fall under the same fate marijuana did in the early 1900's when everything about it, caused any one messing with it, to be dealt with criminally.

If you play a song and it can be heard by more than one person, it will fall under a public exhibition status and thus requires a fee to be paid to the artists or record label for that right.

Internet Radio will cease to exist if the fees become too cost prohibitive to stay afloat, specially if the Internet music station does not charge a fee or intiate a contract to play commercials for their paying sponsers. There is no way, a sponser free Internet Radio station can survive, even my own Internet radio station. I can only do so much before being a free radio service for listeners becomes too cost prohibitive for me to continue any longer.

Now, the next big issue is part 15 radio.

Here I am, trying to get something off of the ground, only to be told, your time and place to do this has long since past years ago.

Part 15 radio does not cover enough ground to offer a potential advertiser a good return in audience exposure.

Licensed radio stations cover a lot of potential listener territory, where part 15 is limited to a thumb print of 200 feet to 1 mile maximum, that restricts the amount of possible human ear exposure you are going to get and charging any business a reasonable fee, to expose their products or services to the public, would limit you to $10.00 for a 30 second spot on your radio broadcast. That would not keep you afloat unless all you do is play advertising spots and no copy-righted music.

All talk radio is great as long as you can come up with tons of subjects to talk about to keep your audience interested and entertained.

At least as an all talk locally produced programed station, you owe no one anything in copy right fees, because all your on air content is your's and no one can take credit for or charge a fee for it except you. That would be the only way you can survive in this evil world on the Internet or radio broadcast bands.

Let us hope, that time changes things back to the way they were, before GREED ruined what radio was meant to be, entertianment at a reasonable cost.

Bruce.

I'm sponsored by one of the

I'm sponsored by one of the BIGGEST companies in Digital Media (Including some Serious XM Latin stations). I will tell you this and head this and get this in planted in your brains... Internet Radio Will Not Die... Not now, Not Ever!!! This statement is what I'm talking about:

 

Internet Radio will cease to exist if the fees become too cost prohibitive to stay afloat, specially if the Internet music station does not charge a fee or initiate a contract to play commercials for their paying sponsors.

 

For Now you will have to play 2-4 minutes of ads every 4th song just as The Legacy aka A-1 Audio Legacy FM does. I've given you the one and only avenue that will allow you to stay legal and cheap. Stardom Digital Media is buying out StreamLicensing. They also partner with Djc Media and work together. Actually Stardom was partnered and merged from Djc Media group. Djc has been working hard before Stardom united with them. Now we even have members of congress who see our concerns and are willing to listen to us since StreamLicensing has always played by the book and has established a good relationship with many members of the PRO's. Its not doom here.

 

Remember when I said I was an activist??? Behind the scene I've been working hard to keep Hobby Radio alive on the Internet. And I've mentioned part 15 to Stardom Digital Media. Though they don't yet represent part 15 there are aware of it and see it as a good promoting tool.

 

I've mentioned petitioning for more power on AM and FM and the 87.7 and 87.9 Mhz for Hobby Radio. My sponsor thinks we need to concentrate on Internet Radio and win that fight. Then we can look at part 15 or a Ad supported Hobby Radio service where you can help promote diversity. Please go to http://www.radiodiversity.org and make your voice heard. Again many good things in store but it will take everyone to participate and grow a pair.

 

Best Regards from your hard working activist for Hobby Radio!!

Progressive Rock (Album Rock, Deep Tracks), Classic Rock

http://thelegacy.shorturl.com

More Power for Hobby Broadcasters

http://the-initiative.boards.net/

Thelegacy Said:

Thelegacy Said:

I'm sponsored by one of the BIGGEST companies in Digital Media (Including some Serious XM Latin stations). I will tell you this and head this and get this in planted in your brains... Internet Radio Will Not Die... Not now, Not Ever!!! This statement is what I'm talking about:

 (Below he quoted me)

Internet Radio will cease to exist if the fees become too cost prohibitive to stay afloat, specially if the Internet music station does not charge a fee or initiate a contract to play commercials for their paying sponsors.

MrBruce Said:

Thelegacy you used my quote and contradicted it, with your opening statement.

Basically you said what I had already said:

Internet Radio will cease to exist if the fees become too cost prohibitive to stay afloat, specially if the Internet music station does not charge a fee or initiate a contract to play commercials for their paying sponsors.

My point IS, UNLESS YOU have some type of ADVERTISING on your stream covering 80% of your stream time, YOU CAN NOT CONTINUE TO EXIST!!!!

That means I have to play ONE SONG, then play 12 commercials or more, then ONE song, then as many commecrials as possible before playing the next song.

Why don't I just sell off all of my vinyl record collection and go ALL advertising 24/7/365?

WFPN the home of all the BEST ADVERTISING! Our slogan "We play all the best advertising tracks out there!!!"

Good grief, I really am beginning to HATE this hobby!!! You're screwed as an AM/FM by anti-part 15 trolls and now your screwed being an Internet station, the bullshit doesn't seem to end in this hobby. 20 years ago, the hobby didn't go through all this crap, now it's all a joke and a waste of time or effort having anything to do with this crap.

I seriously do not know about you or the people in your lives, but MOST everyone I know tunes out any music source once the commercials come on air. I see it with everyone and anyone I've met in my lifetime.

What do you think made WXTZ FM so popular? NO COMMERCIALS, that's what!

Bruce.

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